Saturday, August 27, 2011

God's Sovereignty over the Church's Destiny

This post by John Piper at Desiring God, deals with the issue of how the Christian should view the sovereignty of God - especially as it applies to evangelism & missions, history & the end times, and uncertainty or risk in general.

A summary:

  • It is impossible for God take ‘risks’ since He is absolutely sovereign and knows the outcome of all his activity. Instead, He makes ‘sacrifices’ that will certainly result in the ultimate good and delight of His church, in the glory of Christ.
  • Any ‘risks’ we take of losing the smaller pleasures of this life (including the gift of life itself on this earth), are actually ‘sacrifices’ that we know will work for the cause of ultimate good. There is no real 'risk' for the Christian.
  • Some people see whole history of the church from the First to the Second Coming of Christ, as resting ultimately and without any certainty upon the individual decisions that men make – especially that of the first disciples after Pentecost – with a real and frightening 'risk' of failure and defeat.
  • This view is false to Scripture, built on false philosophical presuppositions, damaging to the mission of Christ in the world, and belittling to the glory of God. God can't and doesn't take 'risks'.

Read the post for more details :)

I know John Piper’s views on things reasonably well, so I can say I agree with everything he’s trying to say. However, I wish he had emphasised two (potentially balancing) points, which I know he believes:

  • First, there is a very real sense that certain wills and decisions of man ARE NECESSARY for history to occur as it has, and also for Christ’s purposes to prevail in the future. It DOES rest upon the decisions of man, which spring from within himself (i.e. not robotically or coerced – we do it because we actually have decided to do it).
  • However, if man’s decisions are necessary steps, it does NOT mean they are ultimate or foundational or self-determining steps, or that there is a possibility of them not occuring. They are merely links in the chain of God’s sovereignty – the whole chain is necessary, but there is NO possibility that it will not form.
  • Following on from that, the paradox that God is sovereign and yet we are responsible can be defined more precisely as this: God can pre-determine human decisions, and yet they can still spring from within humanity without coercion and with personal volition.

  • Secondly, this paradox – while being a paradox we may never understand fully – is able to be understood more and more as it is contemplated and pursued! I know this from personal experience, from the experience of others far wiser than myself, and from drawing analogies from science.
  • For example, science has occasionally had to switch its whole understanding of certain aspects of the world to something completely foreign – Copernican astronomy, Newtonian physics, special and general relativity, genetics and microbiology, quantum physics, atomic chemistry, etc. People have always struggled to understand things which seem to contradict our experience or current understanding, despite the truth of these ideas. Yet those who commit themselves to understanding such models can reach a level of understanding where it actually DOES work in the mind (at least to a greater degree than before).
  • I think the same can be said of the sovereignty of God and human ‘free will’. Just because it is a paradox which may not be completely understood, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pursue understanding of it.

6 comments:

  1. I think the same can be said of the sovereignty of God and human ‘free will’. Just because it is a paradox which may not be completely understood, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pursue understanding of it.

    Excellent. Totally agree that we should pursue comprehension.

    Regarding this summary:

    It is impossible for God take ‘risks’ since He is absolutely sovereign and knows the outcome of all his activity. Instead, He makes ‘sacrifices’ that will certainly result in the ultimate good and delight of His church, in the glory of Christ.

    I would agree to a degree. It really hangs on what JP means by "risks". I would say that God takes a risk by opening up "freedom of choice for man" in that on the smaller individual scale He risks "losing" individuals whom He desires to save. All in the name of loyalty with the opportunity to be disloyal or else one cannot have loyalty (I believe).

    On a large scale picture regarding the church as a whole or even the outcome of the world, our Lord's will reigns.
    I know the church will not fail simply because God said it wouldn't. I believe He can say that because:

    1. He has foreknowledge
    2. He has power to carry it out.

    I don't think would say the church will not fail with just one of each of these reasons. I don't think He simply "makes" it happen, although He influences it heavily. I also don't think He claims the future just because of passive foreknowledge, because He will build the church Himself.

    So He can see a potential/plausible (want for a better word) outcome and will work to do it and only He can do it. He planned Jesus before the beginning of the world through His foreknowledge and His plan working together.

    So I believe on a large scale God does work out history, however what I am trying to say is, is that I don't think God can make "every" alternative ending happen without canceling His stance on desiring a loyal people. Though I admit without Him we cannot become loyal, because we have sinned. Because of Him we can choose Him... yet not "automatically" choose Him. He chooses us first, then we choose Him.

    If God is restricted in any way it is because:
    1. He cannot be what He isn't
    2. He cannot go against what He has restricted Himself to

    He is sovereign.

    So He works the future according to these rules. Yes, I do think God does "make" things happen in our lives but not to the extent that He chooses "everything" for us (or in us).

    hope I have made some sense :)

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  2. Thanks DP :) I always appreciate your comments, they raise good balancing points.

    JP would definitely say that 'losing individuals whom He desires to save', is in fact a sacrifice - He KNOWS what the outcome will be. And (because He is a personal being) He has a degree of conflicting desires: He wants them to be saved, but knows that everything leading up to and surrounding their 'loss' is in fact the best thing possible for the 'good and delight of His church, in the glory of Christ'.

    So you're right - God has restricted Himself to forego some of His desires for the sake of pursuing different desires of His. Although I think there is a better way of wording this ;)

    God has complete sovereignty over what happens, and works for the ultimate good and glory of His purposes. But although He fully delights in His grand plan and set-in-stone outcomes, this doesn't mean He has no sorrow (mixed in with that delight) over some of the steps He choses to take. He has 'restricted Himself' to experience some sorrow, because it is His path toward greater delight.

    We all find it very difficult, to not simplify the paradox we're talking about. God definitely talks about spontaneous, self-generated, responsibility-bearing, consequence-generating, necessary, human wills. Which we call 'free will'. And He definitely talks about irresistible, heart-changing, destiny-securing, impossible to thwart, responsibility-sparing, necessary, works of God ON human wills. In fact, both seem to be present and acting ALL the time in EVERY human (according to some verses).

    God help us understand this! So that we can pray and act with a real sense of power and hope in a sovereign God, giving glory to You, while still retaining the excitement and having a sober mind that springs from understanding the individual responsibility everyone has, to choose to pursue You. And may we understand how your love works: in both your sovereignty over our wills, and in the necessity of our personal will to love You in return.

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  3. Hey FG,

    It is good to discuss :b
    Shouldn't you be studying?! lol.

    In fact, both seem to be present and acting ALL the time in EVERY human (according to some verses).

    Which verses say that God works human wills all the time?

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  4. Excellent question :)

    There are no verses explicitly stating that God 'works human wills all the time.' But neither are there any verses stating that humans have free will all the time. (In fact, there are no verses I know of that explicitly state free will at all, but there are definitely verses which state the work of God ON the will).

    What I said is referring more the the feel of certain passages - what seems to be the point of what they're saying, or the underlying assumption, etc... I think we both agree that this 'feel' leads us to accept the idea of a responsible, self-generated, personal 'free will'.

    I just gotta finish my assignments and then go find those verses dealing with a more continuous sovereignty over human wills... :) Get back to ya in a wee while...

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  5. doh! I just realised that where I quoted the original post it hasn't been put in italics as I wished... Oh well.

    I agree that there are no verses stating God working on human will 24/7 and it is obvious that He does not stay completely un-involved. (That I know of). I would verge on saying there are verses which state "freewill". God holding us accountable for OUR wrongs, for one point.

    cheers

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  6. You are right DP.

    It is obvious that God works on human wills in some sense. And it is obvious that God holds us accountable for our own wrongs. What we have to be careful of is human extrapolation in our attempt to solve the paradox too simply.

    For example, accountability does NOT immediately necessitate that God refrain from complete 24/7 involvement in our wills. That is something we extrapolate. Likewise, God's sovereignty does NOT immediately necessitate the God involves himself 24/7 in our wills. There are excellent theologans on both sides of the fence that can 100% agree in human responsibility and accountability and God's sovereignty over our wills.

    In saying that, I DO believe that the scriptures are supportive of 24/7 involvement with our wills :) (not just because they support God's sovereignty). But for now I'll keep holding off the hard work of justifying this :D Wait till after exams...

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