tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post5169557918721250236..comments2023-04-16T01:40:48.403-07:00Comments on The Benevolent Hecklers: Faith and ReasonDaniel (Da Pilgrim)http://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-25221994634739306982011-07-21T02:29:58.631-07:002011-07-21T02:29:58.631-07:00I suppose Jesus distinguishes between faith and be...I suppose Jesus distinguishes between faith and belief for us. He said that even the demons "believe" that He is the Son of God when others didn't, but they did not accept Him and trust in Him for themselves which is more like faith. Hebrews also talks about faith in regards to "Hope" for things unseen or similar.Daniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-7996651772494159682011-07-20T13:33:38.774-07:002011-07-20T13:33:38.774-07:00Thanks DP :)
I am quite passionate about making ...Thanks DP :) <br /><br />I am quite passionate about making a distinction between merely 'holding to a paradigm' (belief) and actually holding to it in such a way that you consider it to be the best correlation to reality that is available (i.e. 'reasonable' - in pursuit of knowledge). <br /><br />But more than that, I am passionate about the distinction between a 'reasonable belief-knowledge paradigm' and 'faith'. faith goes beyond this by including, like you say, a personal-emotional response to the paradigm you hold to.<br /><br />The difference between believing cars exist and Christianity, is the 'faith' component. An appropriate personal-emotional response to a paradigm that believes cars exist, might be some MILD joy, also some caution when crossing roads, etc… <br /><br />However, an appropriate personal-emotional response to a paradigm that believes the Christian God exists, is WAY different - and this is what we describe as Christian faith: <br />An exuberant and trusting delight which goes beyond anything else in our lives, such that it empowers a deep-seated joy and risk taking love in the face of all the challenges life throws at us, and a pursuit of holiness for God that would otherwise be foolishness (because of the pain and effort required for very little apparent gain in this life).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02149662594350828627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-9563151055662759962011-07-20T12:32:07.488-07:002011-07-20T12:32:07.488-07:00I hold to a particular belief-knowledge paradigm (...<i>I hold to a particular belief-knowledge paradigm (Christianity), and the appropriate response to this is 'faith'.</i><br /><br />I would have thought that the fact you "hold to" the belief-knowledge paradigm of Christianity you would have faith any way instad of needing to then respond in faith?<br /><br />The only thing that makes Christianity different to believing that cars are made, is that Christianity involves a Person, involves relationship.<br /><br />But I am also in a way personally involved in believing that cars a made because "I" personally believe they were made.<br /><br />semantics ay?<br /><br />Oh and thanks for clearing up the the "anything". I agree with much of what you have said. I especially like your last paragraph about evil.Daniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-12793042748315753042011-07-20T07:28:05.338-07:002011-07-20T07:28:05.338-07:00I have edited the post with better wording, to ref...I have edited the post with better wording, to reflect what I actually mean :) Thanks for the feedback guys!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02149662594350828627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-4378511145244689482011-07-20T07:20:53.430-07:002011-07-20T07:20:53.430-07:00The statement that 'ANYTHING that is part of a...The statement that 'ANYTHING that is part of a path that leads to faith is good' can be interpreted multiple ways. I had hoped it was obvious how I meant this, but I can clarify it here :) Perhaps a better wording would be "Faith is good, regardless of the steps taken on the path leading to it".<br /><br />I believe any 'appropriate response' to 'true knowledge' is 'good'. I hold to a particular belief-knowledge paradigm (Christianity), and the appropriate response to this is 'faith'. Therefore, by definition (if the Christian paradigm is indeed true), faith is 'good'. It must be emphasises that the 'good' faith I am describing is a personal response to a paradigm which is held based upon 'reason' - However the appropriate personal emotional response may certainly extend beyond the function of mere 'reason'. This is something I hope to discuss in future posts :)<br /><br />This 'goodness' of faith can be further expounded both from a Christian paradigm's perspective (faith pleases God, delights the believer, and is the means God often chooses to work in this world) and a pure knowledge-pursuit paradigm's perspective (faith is a personal response to holding a paradigm as true - it must be based upon various implementations of 'reason')<br /><br />The steps in the path to 'faith' (as a 'good' outcome, incorporating reason) may or may not be intrinsically 'good'. The end does not 'justify the means', but neither do the means 'justify the end' - each is justified intrinsically on their own merits. However, there is a sense in which one can say that PARTICULAR instances of a generally 'evil' phenomenon, may also be considered to share the 'goodness' of the outcome. The death of innocent people in famine may not be generally or intrinsically 'good' (in the Christian paradigm, God expects humans to recognise the imperfection such events demonstrate, and to battle them). But specific instances of this may be considered 'good' in another sense, if they are a necessary link in a chain of events leading to a better outcome elsewhere. A complete understanding of the goodness of specific events requires holding both perspectives in harmony.<br /><br />Christians believe that God can work 'evil' events for a 'good' outcome. Although we personally only aim for 'intrinsically good' events, we recognise that other events - while they are to be battled and brought under the Lordship of Christ - are not necessarily to be despised as 'wrong/evil/worthless' in the hands of God. He can use 'un-reasonable' mechanisms to initiate a path leading to faith (which by definition means that reason must follow these events eventually).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02149662594350828627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-2289639080327723182011-07-20T03:51:40.581-07:002011-07-20T03:51:40.581-07:00Excellent article by Kenneth and a good write up F...Excellent article by Kenneth and a good write up FG. <br />I would agree that faith is both belief with reason, not either or.<br /><br />Although not too sure about what you mean by "ANYTHING" <br /><i>HOWEVER, from a faith perspective, ANYTHING which is part of a path leading, ultimately, to faith (which includes reason) is good.</i><br /><br />I suppose you don't mean "absolutely" good but more a "general" good?<br />For example: It is good that Joe Bloe is testing for evidence for what he believes, even though what he belives may not be on the most accurate road to truth which is the absolute good.<br /><br />DPDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1971383925726802733.post-19173568546922780452011-07-20T03:50:49.608-07:002011-07-20T03:50:49.608-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.com